This Sunday, September 30, we will be covering the first 7 verses in Colossians chapter 3. We read these outloud at the end of class last Sunday. Vance will teach this Sunday as our family will be in Tulsa, OK. Please look at these below verses and pray about these as well as review the study guide material for this week.
Colossians 3:1-7 -
Since then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. for you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is in your life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived.
Take Care! Andrew
Monday, September 24, 2007
Sunday, September 23, 2007
Submersion Baptism after Sprinkling/Pouring
Question and Answer - The need for submersion baptism for someone who has been previously sprinkled/poured at an earlier date than present.
So let’s define baptism first.
In the easiest that I can make out description “baptism is an outward sign of a inward experience of conversion of and by Jesus Christ.” So, Christ gave you a gift you accepted and now you want to tell others. Submersion baptism is used at our church as it is what was done in the bible. Additionally, it is an illustration of what happens to a believer as they are ‘buried with Christ and raised to walk in newness of life’. There isn’t anything magical about the water or the words used. Remember, this is an outward sign of an inward experience of conversion by and for Jesus Christ. Ok, all that said, you say ‘need’ for submersion baptism. If you are saved you are saved. Jesus calls us to show others in many verses. Some of those deal with baptism – reference x:x and others deal with things like telling others – reference Acts 1:8. What is most important here is if:
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
So let’s define baptism first.
In the easiest that I can make out description “baptism is an outward sign of a inward experience of conversion of and by Jesus Christ.” So, Christ gave you a gift you accepted and now you want to tell others. Submersion baptism is used at our church as it is what was done in the bible. Additionally, it is an illustration of what happens to a believer as they are ‘buried with Christ and raised to walk in newness of life’. There isn’t anything magical about the water or the words used. Remember, this is an outward sign of an inward experience of conversion by and for Jesus Christ. Ok, all that said, you say ‘need’ for submersion baptism. If you are saved you are saved. Jesus calls us to show others in many verses. Some of those deal with baptism – reference x:x and others deal with things like telling others – reference Acts 1:8. What is most important here is if:
- You understand that you are a sinner and Forgiveness is Available but you can’t get it on your own – it is Impossible for you to get or do something to get on your own.
- You are ready to Turn from your sin and own way and follow Christ. By accepting His gift (nothing you earned or deserve) you can go to Heaven.
- If all of these are present I haven’t met someone that doesn’t want to tell others. One way in which we do this is through baptism.
Second, let’s define accountability and baptism. What I mean by that is that you can’t be baptized if YOU aren’t the one that decided to get baptized. In our church we call that dedication – someone else is dedicating their time, effort, will, and intention to bringing you closer to the Lord. So my own testimony (or at least part of it) comes in as an example here: I was ‘baptized’ as a baby with sprinkling. Later in life I decided that I believed fully the 3 bullets above. I had decided to follow Jesus (love that song by the way). One follow on action to my OWN DECISION was to follow the bibilical example and get baptized. If you were sprinkled as a baby or very young child and had no decision in this and now have accepted Christ want to get baptized that is great! If you want to rededicate your life to Christ and be baptized that is great! Note that baptism is, again, an outward sign of YOUR decision.
Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life” (Romans 6:3-4 NIV). The action of being immersed in the water pictures being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection. As a result, baptism by immersion is the only method of baptism which illustrates being buried with Christ, and being raised with Him. Baptism by sprinkling and/or pouring came into practice as a result of the unbiblical practice of infant baptism. Baptism by immersion, while it is the most biblical mode of identifying with Christ, is not (as some believe) a prerequisite for salvation. It is rather an act of obedience to the command to “repent and be baptized” (Acts 2:38). Those who believe in baptismal regeneration fail to understand that it is the “repent” part that is necessary for salvation, not the act by which we declare that repentance to the world.Recommended Resource: Believer's Baptism: Sign of the New Covenant in Christ by Schriener and Wright.
This decision is something that I suggest you pray about and potentially ask one of the pastors about (btw, I am happy to talk to you but they rock!). This is a personal decision but not requisite for your salvation. Don’t forget: It may be a sign to another non-believer that they really haven’t been ‘buried with Christ and raised to walk in newness of life’ or a great encouragement to other believers as they can see you accepting Christ as the Lord of your life! Note that Jesus Himself was baptized!
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
Did Colosse Turn from the Heretics?
Question and Answer - What do know about the church at Colosse? Did they turn from their heresy? (Not sure what happened in response to his letter.....)
Paul was warning the believers at Colosse about heretical teachers that were around the church body (the believers) there. He was also encouraging them to continue to look to Christ for everything. As the Holy Spirit was prompting Paul to write this letter I can speculate that this also ‘fell into the hands’ of those teachers. The truth of Paul’s writing hopefully brought some to repentance. I see this letter as so specifically talking to us today as well. I say this because I think your question extends specifically to us as believers today. Did we turn from our heresy? Do we turn away from heretical teachers and teaching? Do we judge others based on say what day they worship on? I am also not sure what happened in response to his letter so I don’t have a definitive answer for you. “The theme of Colossians is the complete adequacy of Christ as contrasted with the emptiness of mere human philosophy” – NIV study bible pg 1852 – so there is no answer full but speculation.
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
Paul was warning the believers at Colosse about heretical teachers that were around the church body (the believers) there. He was also encouraging them to continue to look to Christ for everything. As the Holy Spirit was prompting Paul to write this letter I can speculate that this also ‘fell into the hands’ of those teachers. The truth of Paul’s writing hopefully brought some to repentance. I see this letter as so specifically talking to us today as well. I say this because I think your question extends specifically to us as believers today. Did we turn from our heresy? Do we turn away from heretical teachers and teaching? Do we judge others based on say what day they worship on? I am also not sure what happened in response to his letter so I don’t have a definitive answer for you. “The theme of Colossians is the complete adequacy of Christ as contrasted with the emptiness of mere human philosophy” – NIV study bible pg 1852 – so there is no answer full but speculation.
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
Communion Frequency
Question and Answer - If fellowship is important why not have communion every week? - this was how I was raised.
Thanks for this question. There is quite a bit packed into this question! Before I just dive in let’s touch on the 4 points of your question.
1) Fellowship – I am assuming you mean fellowship with Christ? Or do you mean fellowship with other believers?;
2) Communion – I am assuming you mean the act of communion where we remember Christ’s last supper and come into fellowship with that through a ceremony;
3) Timing – I see you mean every week – I am assuming you mean at Sunday Morning worship;
4) How you were raised – This is comfortable or meaningful to you based on tradition which is cool.
Let’s put some of these 4 together in questions I need to have answered before I am sure I am answering what you are asking:
It is very important to have fellowship with Christ. We do this through a number of ways including bible study time (alone and corporately), driving down the street, prayer, corporate worship, Sunday school fellowship time, time with friends, music, etc. What I understanding you are drawing together is the tie to communion and the frequency of this form as a corporate ordinance for our church. I would ask to go on even further and ask about why we don’t do it every time we meet together as believers? I am right with you on observing this extremely meaningful time of fellowship with Christ. That said, how often is too often and how often is not often enough? Would too often be every day? Would too few be every 2 years? I guess what I am saying is that certainly we can’t go too long nor is trying to do this every meal (which remember we are breaking bread and drinking together) in a ceremonial way corporately meaningful.
The Bible nowhere instructs us how often we should take communion. 1 Corinthians 11:24-26 records the following instructions for communion: “…the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; And giving thanks, He broke it and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of Me.’ In the same way He took the cup also, after supping, saying, ‘This cup is the New Covenant in My blood; as often as you drink it, do this in remembrance of Me.’ For ‘as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you show’ the Lord's death until He shall come.” This passage gives all the instructions we need to perform the rite of communion and to understand the significance of what we are doing. The bread which He broke in half represents His body which was broken on the cross for us. The cup represents the blood He shed on our behalf, sealing a covenant between Him and us. Each time we perform the communion ritual, we are not only remembering what He did for us, but we are “showing” it as well to all who watch and all who participate. This is a beautiful and graphic picture of what happened at the cross, what it means, and how it impacts our lives as believers. It would seem, then, that since we take the Lord’s Supper to remember Christ’s death and shed blood, we should take it fairly often. Some churches have a monthly Lord’s Supper service, others do it bi-monthly, others weekly. Since the Bible does not give us specific instruction as to frequency, there is some latitude in how often a church should observe the Lord’s Supper. It should be often enough to renew focus on Christ, without being so often that it become routine. In any case, it’s not the frequency that matters, but the heart attitude of those who participate. We should partake with reverence, love, and a deep sense of gratitude for the Lord Jesus, who was willing to die on the cross to take upon Himself our sins.Recommended Resource: The Lord's Supper is a Celebration of Grace by Gordon Keddie.
Converse to your question I don’t fully see the tie that the church is seeing fellowship as less important if we don’t do communion every week at Sunday morning service. (BTW – I grew up this way too… )
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
Thanks for this question. There is quite a bit packed into this question! Before I just dive in let’s touch on the 4 points of your question.
1) Fellowship – I am assuming you mean fellowship with Christ? Or do you mean fellowship with other believers?;
2) Communion – I am assuming you mean the act of communion where we remember Christ’s last supper and come into fellowship with that through a ceremony;
3) Timing – I see you mean every week – I am assuming you mean at Sunday Morning worship;
4) How you were raised – This is comfortable or meaningful to you based on tradition which is cool.
Let’s put some of these 4 together in questions I need to have answered before I am sure I am answering what you are asking:
It is very important to have fellowship with Christ. We do this through a number of ways including bible study time (alone and corporately), driving down the street, prayer, corporate worship, Sunday school fellowship time, time with friends, music, etc. What I understanding you are drawing together is the tie to communion and the frequency of this form as a corporate ordinance for our church. I would ask to go on even further and ask about why we don’t do it every time we meet together as believers? I am right with you on observing this extremely meaningful time of fellowship with Christ. That said, how often is too often and how often is not often enough? Would too often be every day? Would too few be every 2 years? I guess what I am saying is that certainly we can’t go too long nor is trying to do this every meal (which remember we are breaking bread and drinking together) in a ceremonial way corporately meaningful.
The Bible nowhere instructs us how often we should take communion. 1 Corinthians 11:24-26 records the following instructions for communion: “…the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; And giving thanks, He broke it and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of Me.’ In the same way He took the cup also, after supping, saying, ‘This cup is the New Covenant in My blood; as often as you drink it, do this in remembrance of Me.’ For ‘as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you show’ the Lord's death until He shall come.” This passage gives all the instructions we need to perform the rite of communion and to understand the significance of what we are doing. The bread which He broke in half represents His body which was broken on the cross for us. The cup represents the blood He shed on our behalf, sealing a covenant between Him and us. Each time we perform the communion ritual, we are not only remembering what He did for us, but we are “showing” it as well to all who watch and all who participate. This is a beautiful and graphic picture of what happened at the cross, what it means, and how it impacts our lives as believers. It would seem, then, that since we take the Lord’s Supper to remember Christ’s death and shed blood, we should take it fairly often. Some churches have a monthly Lord’s Supper service, others do it bi-monthly, others weekly. Since the Bible does not give us specific instruction as to frequency, there is some latitude in how often a church should observe the Lord’s Supper. It should be often enough to renew focus on Christ, without being so often that it become routine. In any case, it’s not the frequency that matters, but the heart attitude of those who participate. We should partake with reverence, love, and a deep sense of gratitude for the Lord Jesus, who was willing to die on the cross to take upon Himself our sins.Recommended Resource: The Lord's Supper is a Celebration of Grace by Gordon Keddie.
Converse to your question I don’t fully see the tie that the church is seeing fellowship as less important if we don’t do communion every week at Sunday morning service. (BTW – I grew up this way too… )
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
OT Laws Changed by Christ?
Question and Answer - Why did we have laws in the OT to be changed in the NT w/Christ?
Short Answer: The laws in the OT are not ‘gone’ or ‘changed’ but ‘fulfilled’ by Christ.
In Matthew’s record of what is commonly called, “The Sermon on the Mount,” these words of Jesus are recorded: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished" (Matthew 5:17-18).It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the “Sabbath day” requirement must be operative still, along with perhaps numerous other elements of the Mosaic Law. This assumption is grounded upon a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage. Christ did not here suggest that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament record (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). Consider the following points.Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “abolish.” It translates the Greek term “kataluo,” literally meaning to “loose down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Matthew 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Corinthians 5:1). The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., to “render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to invalidate.”It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “...not to abolish, but to fulfill.” The meaning is this. Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, he revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding himself (Luke 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience, or else imposed a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10,13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ, and thus remains as a binding legal system for today, then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose. Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
Short Answer: The laws in the OT are not ‘gone’ or ‘changed’ but ‘fulfilled’ by Christ.
In Matthew’s record of what is commonly called, “The Sermon on the Mount,” these words of Jesus are recorded: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished" (Matthew 5:17-18).It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the “Sabbath day” requirement must be operative still, along with perhaps numerous other elements of the Mosaic Law. This assumption is grounded upon a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage. Christ did not here suggest that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament record (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). Consider the following points.Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “abolish.” It translates the Greek term “kataluo,” literally meaning to “loose down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Matthew 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Corinthians 5:1). The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., to “render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to invalidate.”It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “...not to abolish, but to fulfill.” The meaning is this. Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, he revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding himself (Luke 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience, or else imposed a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10,13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, as it did before Christ came, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what he came “to do.” On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish what he came to accomplish, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ, and thus remains as a binding legal system for today, then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose. Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
How do we unify all the Christian Faiths?
Question and Answer - How do we unify all the Christian faiths/denominations?
The first part of this is why they are separate at all. What is it that drove the denominations to split apart? Certainly there have been historic moments that the churches and denominations can look back including where the orthodox and catholic church split, the reformation, finding cool tablets, etc. But what is that drove these? I see only 2 things that DROVE these (some scholar with have much more but these are it from my vantage point):
A) Human need for control
B) Seeking to put God first above all else
I can go into more on these if you would like.
The second part of this is how do we unify (more specific to answer your question) all of these. I, frankly, see no way to do this. There are 3 main reasons of which I will go into more detail on the 3rd:
1) Human tradition and ‘club’ created and associated with each denomination and faith is so strong – people relate to their family and others through the common history and paradigm created by ‘growing up’ and knowing this tradition – or - comfort
2) Specific doctrine
3) We may be looking to unify something that is outside what Christ asked from us.
A little more on #3 – The bible delineates the followers of Christ as ‘the body’. There is not a name (even Christian) put on these believers at that time. I would suggest that Christ showed us an example that He continued in His Word around personal and specific love of God and through that, love of others. The call, from what I read, is to search for truth through the scripture, prayer, and fellowship both personally and corporately. If the group you are around (call it a church or not) is after these things and not off on tangents that don’t rely soley on the scripture then my question is what is the difference between that and anything else out there.
What I hear inside this question is the concern that we want to bring everyone into heaven or, at least, that we care about everyone. That IS certainly something Christ wants us to care about. I would ask though, is this (unifying all the Christian faiths/denominations) something that will help lead these people to Christ? I would ask rather what can be done for each individual as we saw the example of Christ reaching out to individuals. Our love for those in need specifically is a call from Christ. Finally, I would like to say that I truly believe that the body of Christ IS unified. This may sound strange but if you think about an example it may be helpful. When I was returning from my first trip to Romania the last flight I was on I was worn out. I sat next to a very tall man who identified himself as a kernel in the Army. As we talked a bit more he told me he is a follower of Jesus Christ. We talked the entire flight about how he was saved, what was going on in our families, and what we could pray for each other about. We still email each other occasionally. You know, I don’t know what church he goes to. He is a believer. We are unified THROUGH CHRIST.
Again, not US that can bring the body together but Christ. Are we after Christ above all or after human constructions and regulations that appear to be wisdom - Col 2:23?
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
The first part of this is why they are separate at all. What is it that drove the denominations to split apart? Certainly there have been historic moments that the churches and denominations can look back including where the orthodox and catholic church split, the reformation, finding cool tablets, etc. But what is that drove these? I see only 2 things that DROVE these (some scholar with have much more but these are it from my vantage point):
A) Human need for control
B) Seeking to put God first above all else
I can go into more on these if you would like.
The second part of this is how do we unify (more specific to answer your question) all of these. I, frankly, see no way to do this. There are 3 main reasons of which I will go into more detail on the 3rd:
1) Human tradition and ‘club’ created and associated with each denomination and faith is so strong – people relate to their family and others through the common history and paradigm created by ‘growing up’ and knowing this tradition – or - comfort
2) Specific doctrine
3) We may be looking to unify something that is outside what Christ asked from us.
A little more on #3 – The bible delineates the followers of Christ as ‘the body’. There is not a name (even Christian) put on these believers at that time. I would suggest that Christ showed us an example that He continued in His Word around personal and specific love of God and through that, love of others. The call, from what I read, is to search for truth through the scripture, prayer, and fellowship both personally and corporately. If the group you are around (call it a church or not) is after these things and not off on tangents that don’t rely soley on the scripture then my question is what is the difference between that and anything else out there.
What I hear inside this question is the concern that we want to bring everyone into heaven or, at least, that we care about everyone. That IS certainly something Christ wants us to care about. I would ask though, is this (unifying all the Christian faiths/denominations) something that will help lead these people to Christ? I would ask rather what can be done for each individual as we saw the example of Christ reaching out to individuals. Our love for those in need specifically is a call from Christ. Finally, I would like to say that I truly believe that the body of Christ IS unified. This may sound strange but if you think about an example it may be helpful. When I was returning from my first trip to Romania the last flight I was on I was worn out. I sat next to a very tall man who identified himself as a kernel in the Army. As we talked a bit more he told me he is a follower of Jesus Christ. We talked the entire flight about how he was saved, what was going on in our families, and what we could pray for each other about. We still email each other occasionally. You know, I don’t know what church he goes to. He is a believer. We are unified THROUGH CHRIST.
One example of people attempting to bring together all faiths is the Unity School of Christianity right here Kansas City. Here is some information:
- The Unity School of Christianity is considered a classic pantheistic New Age cult. It was founded in 1889 by Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, and incorporated as a church in Kansas City in 1903. There are approximately 110,000 members, with over 300 Unity churches. It is one of the largest metaphysical groups in the United States, and has a huge mail-order base (its magazine Daily Word has millions of readers).The Unity School of Christianity got its start through an illness. Myrtle had developed tuberculosis and was searching for anything that would heal her. After attending a lecture by Dr. Eugene Weeks, a disciple of Quimby's New Thought teachings, she learned about metaphysical healing. Two years after this lecture, and after much research and personal application of metaphysics, she claims she was healed. Her husband, while skeptical at first, began to study metaphysics also, as well as other religions and philosophies. What emerged was the Unity School of Christianity, named so after Charles heard a voice say to him, "unity." This name fit well, as the Fillmores' religious philosophy was a mix of New Thought, Christian Science, Divine Science, Hinduism, Theosophy, Rosicrucianism, Spiritualism, and others. As quoted by Charles, they "borrowed the best from all religions." Excited by Myrtle's healing and by the knowledge they had recently acquired, they began holding meetings to teach others their new theology.The Unity School of Christianity claims that through adhering to its teachings people can be happier, healthier, and achieve their divine potential. Six of its main teachings are: 1) All sacred writings of all religions contain spiritual insights, and should be interpreted metaphysically, though spiritual insight can be gained without consulting holy books; 2) God is an impersonal principle, and is found in all things, animate and inanimate, and all things are in God; 3) Jesus was just a man who obtained divine consciousness, and became the voice of God to humanity; 4) Because the divine nature is found in all things, man is also divine; 5) Salvation comes through obtaining perfect union between one's mind and the divine mind, by obtaining divine consciousness--there is not sin to deal with; and 6) Reincarnation annuls the dissolution of spirit, soul and body caused by death.Obviously, the Unity School of Christianity has nothing whatsoever to do with biblical Christian teaching. The Bible refutes each and every point of Unity theology: 1) The Bible alone is the Word of God, given to mankind so that we might each come to know Jesus Christ in a personal, saving way (John 17:17; Psalm 119:89, 140; 2 Timothy 3:16-17); 2) God is an extremely personal God Who created all things, and while omni-present, He exists apart from His creation (Psalm 139:7-12; John 1:1-5; 14:6; Ephesians 2:4-5; Hebrews 1:3); 3) Jesus is the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, God manifested in human form, being fully divine while fully human (John 1:1, 14; 5:18; Acts 4:12; Philippians 2:6-7; Colossians 1:15-18); 4) Mankind is not divine, but fallen, and is in need of salvation due to his sin nature (Isaiah 64:6; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:23; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 1 John 3:4); 5) Salvation comes through faith in Christ alone (Isaiah 7:14; Luke 2:11; John 3:16; 1 John 2:2); and 6) Because of sin, mankind experiences physical death only once (Hebrews 9:27).
Again, not US that can bring the body together but Christ. Are we after Christ above all or after human constructions and regulations that appear to be wisdom - Col 2:23?
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
Judging Others - 2 Parts
Question and answer - A) Is it not okay to judge others when that judgement is based on biblical truth. And B) Judgement - people (especially non-believer) take this verse out of context. Sin is still sin and they should not be tolerated because we 'should not judge'. Would like to discuss this further.
These 2 questions deserve much more than blog attention but I will attempt here and maybe we can discuss a bit in class as well!
Short answer: Is your intention to bring someone closer to Christ or to point them out and….?
It seems that whenever one person confronts another person over an issue, the statement "Do not judge!" comes up. Christians are often accused of "judging" in contradiction to what the Bible says whenever they speak out against a sinful activity. However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses which state, "Do not judge." When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for their sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is their Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with their sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20). We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). We are to proclaim what God's Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word ; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences - the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).Recommended Resource: Hard Sayings of the Bible by Kaiser, Davids, & Brauch.
If we TRULY believe “For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and FOR Him. He is before all things, and in Him ALL things hold together” – Col 1:16-17 – then we have no reason to fear that all by ourselves we must correct the path of man corporately or personally one by one. That does not mean we are not to discern (see above question and answer on ‘ok to judge on biblical truth) and admonish as per the above. It means that our intention is not about tolerating but to deliver the message that Christ is the answer – not our argument that whatever sin it is is wrong. We should hate sin! But we shouldn’t hate the sinner. It is important not to see ourselves as a judge on sin. The “smallest” to the “largest” sin is still sin to a Holy God. We, therefore, cannot claim to be a righteous judge. Great question and I believe I understood the intent as noble and seeking the Lord so please bear with me as I try to write out something that would be a great conversation. I look forward to more on this thread.
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
These 2 questions deserve much more than blog attention but I will attempt here and maybe we can discuss a bit in class as well!
Short answer: Is your intention to bring someone closer to Christ or to point them out and….?
It seems that whenever one person confronts another person over an issue, the statement "Do not judge!" comes up. Christians are often accused of "judging" in contradiction to what the Bible says whenever they speak out against a sinful activity. However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses which state, "Do not judge." When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for their sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is their Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with their sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20). We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). We are to proclaim what God's Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word ; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences - the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6).Recommended Resource: Hard Sayings of the Bible by Kaiser, Davids, & Brauch.
If we TRULY believe “For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and FOR Him. He is before all things, and in Him ALL things hold together” – Col 1:16-17 – then we have no reason to fear that all by ourselves we must correct the path of man corporately or personally one by one. That does not mean we are not to discern (see above question and answer on ‘ok to judge on biblical truth) and admonish as per the above. It means that our intention is not about tolerating but to deliver the message that Christ is the answer – not our argument that whatever sin it is is wrong. We should hate sin! But we shouldn’t hate the sinner. It is important not to see ourselves as a judge on sin. The “smallest” to the “largest” sin is still sin to a Holy God. We, therefore, cannot claim to be a righteous judge. Great question and I believe I understood the intent as noble and seeking the Lord so please bear with me as I try to write out something that would be a great conversation. I look forward to more on this thread.
NOTE: I am not a bible scholar nor do I understand all of the context around each item so I am going with what I know and can discern from what is written. Please comment on the item and, if I miss the real point please let me know. I have written the questions down exactly as they were written on the paper with no structure or wording changes. As promised, I will also work diligently with those that know the bible better than I to answer some of these questions. I expect that some of these questions and answers may be controversial. I am attempting only to impart truth and point to it. Please be patient with me and the answers. If I have said something that offends you or is inaccurate respond please. I will consult with a pastor and get back to you. Thanks to all for sharing!
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